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| Blogs > khuXBFXM8u > The Down and Dirty |
Conversation… a lost art?
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Conversation… a lost art? This is another one of those long-ass posts. I’m really interested in everyone’s take on this. My blog friend Intendadiversion wrote a post, entitled [post 3387629]; I was writing a long winded comment to it, but I stopped and decided to turn it into a post. If you haven’t read it, Intenda’s post is about what happens when a man presses for a meeting, and is told she is not yet ready to meet him, because she hasn’t gotten to know him well enough. The man in an effort to get the meet throws out the “what would you like to know” line... from her post and the responses, I assume this is a regular occurrence for women on this site. The position I’m going to take in this post may catch the ire of many, but I feel it is something that should be discussed, and not just the regular… ladies all jumping on the “men are just looking for a hole to fill” bandwagon, and a few men going along for the ride. This discussion needs to move away from discussing or commenting on the “wanna fuck” tribe members. The “wanna fuck” tribe is a lost cause; they don’t read profiles or blogs, they will never change their position, so let’s forget about them for this discussion. Instead let’s focus our discussion on the men / women and couples who read / write / comment on blogs regularly. First things first; have I ever in a conversation asked someone the question, "What do you want to know?" Hell yes! I have asked that question in response to the question "tell me about yourself" or something similar like, “what are you looking for?” My thinking is, “surely you are not asking me for my elevator pitch”, because it’s right there in my profile, so there must be something specific you are fishing for. If you have ever taken a look at my profile, it's pretty complete, personality test, purity test, Q & A... I blog. Even if the person is not a blog reader, there is lots of information there for someone to get into specifics with me. I am the same way on other sites; if there is a test, survey, etc. available to be completed, I complete them. I want to provide as much information about me as possible to anyone who is even mildly interested in talking to me. The thing is, I don't get upset when I am faced with the situation of the nonsense question; even though the information is all there for any lady who wants to take the time to read it. But I do understand that it can get aggravating to answer the same questions over, and over and over again, I have felt it. So instead of getting aggravated, I have just adjusted my game to accommodate this nuance in online dating. Anyway, back to the situation intenda has brought up. Few of us seem to have the ability to stop, step back and really analyze someone’s statement made to us with complete clarity; or at least I don’t. When someone says something to us we were not expecting or want to hear, we hit our modes… defensive, aggressive, passive aggressive, what have you. Those from the ABC (always be closing) school of dating, will think there is some magic thing that can be said, that will close the deal. There isn’t. Because what is really being said is not, “I don’t know enough about you to meet yet”  … it’s “I’m not comfortable yet”, and there is simply no way to speed up someone else’s comfort. Someone had the image above in a blog post I read a while back, and after I stopped laughing, I realize there is a degree of truth to it. For the most part, (in the absence of sarcasm) men say and take things literally. So a statement like, “I'm not ready to meet until I get to know you better” is taken literally and honestly met with the question “what would you like to know?”. Someone reading this right now is climbing on the soapbox ready to say “if he wants to get with me, he better up his communication game”… to that I say YES. BUT, I also say, you want to get with him too or you wouldn’t be wasting your time chatting with and messaging him, so maybe, just maybe, you need to up your communication game too. The reality is everyone is not going to be comfortable communicating in this format; some people are just more in tune with it. IM or e-mail is similar to texting, and if the volume of texts sent by gender is an indication, women are much more comfortable having conversations in this type of format. And when it comes right down to it, who doesn’t want to communicate in a format they are comfortable in. I certainly see it all the time in profiles, women who appear to be more comfortable getting to know someone face to face, or by telephone or Skype… “I’m not here to endlessly exchange e-mail”, or “chat first, meet and see if there is chemistry”. If you read female profiles, you will see something to that effect, more than a handful of times. For those ladies who like to chat for an extended period of time, if you knew all the men on this site had been vetted, to eliminate all the undesirables, would you spend as long a time chatting before you meet to see if there is real chemistry? My preference for having a conversation with someone, is face to face first, telephone second, and messaging a very distant third. With messaging there is a lot of non-verbal communication that is missed… facial expressions when a pain point is struck by a question, body language, etc., it's all present in face to face interaction. With telephone conversation (and face to face), there are awkward pauses and voice inflection, that gives us clues. With messaging, that’s all gone; all responses can be somewhat measured and guarded.From my experience, most women do have a checklist; some actually put it in list format in their profiles. Even if the checklist is not written into profiles, it’s in your head. I don’t think men are different; the list is different, and maybe shorter and less complex. During the initial interaction, most women are working from that check list, and an interview is being conducted to validate the man against the list. I learn this on a vanilla site, were the women seem to outnumber the men, or are at least way more aggressive in contacting men. After about a week of being on the vanilla site, I noticed a patter to the questions I was asked, interspersed between the “conversation”, and realized the real root question being asked is, “what are you looking for” or stated another way, “are you looking for me”. So I started writing down the questions and my responses, and started to compile a manifesto to cover all the different angles of the questions… that’s my game adjustment. As soon as someone starts down the checklist road, I would just send out the manifesto, so that hopefully we can get back to really talking and interacting, or the conversation comes to an abrupt end. The art of just talking to someone and just enjoying the conversations, flirting, and taking liberties in where the conversation goes, (everyone seem to want to stay in the safety zone), is not just something men are bad at, sorry to say, women are just as bad at it. As far as wanting to find the shortest path to find someone to fuck, who doesn’t want that, really? IMHO, if you are on this site, with the intent to meet someone and hook-up, date, have as a fuckbuddy, FWB, long-term committed relationship or even marry, you want it to be short rather than long! Now, are women going to take the first cock that shows up… NO! BUT, show of hands or yelling or clapping, anyone who doesn’t want to meet someone, be completely swept off your feet, quickly connect with the person on all the levels you seek a connection, the person turns out to be exactly what you wanted, and you are out  … completely off this site, or you return only to blog while you fully explore this new relationship?… crickets and no hands raised; yeah, that's what I thought. Now the likelihood of this happening is still slim and none, but would anyone say no thanks if things actually worked that way? I have read your blogs, I know different.Oh, and as far as communicating when I am ready to meet, I don’t ask… I tell. When I am ready to meet, I simply say “when you are ready to meet, I am; so you will have to let me know when you are ready”. Find pleasure in giving pleasure |
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I always do from my point of view, but I am eager to see what other think. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I am always want to meet, because it is the best part of interacting with someone, even in the complete absence of sex. The best meetings I have even had to date are with ladies I will never hook-up. One had a similar professional background, and the other had a similar childhood background; I was a classmate of her older sibling. A run in with a no-show artist shortly after I joined this site, has slowed how quickly I am willing to meet someone. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Phenomenal post Khu and I get what you're saying. The difference in time frame and willingness to meet someone you are chatting with seems to stem from the sexual position, men are guests in women's bodies in the sex act and probably don't mind too much about the real qualities and nature of who they bang. As long as they get the sense that she's using contraception, not a psycho who's going to stab him to death if there's a post-coital slumber and she's not going to give him any diseases that can't be got rid of with antibiotics, it's all good. On the other side of the fence, while the woman wants to be assured of the same things, she has him potentially entering her physical temple, her body. Like food and how selective people can be about what they eat, so women tend to be equally (or much more) selective about who they let in them. They want to know that the guy is respectful, asking this as an outright question is pointless because even the most sexually abusive jerkoff will claim to be. She needs to have his nature as a man unfold in the course of intelligent discussion but so few men on sites such as this are capable of that. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I'm not going to sit here and say that the noise level ladies have to endure from the "wanna fuck" tribe is easy to take or ignore. But ladies do have to look for creative ways to reduce the impact of the noise they make, or you will not hear the voice of the ones you want to hear from. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I read her post and made my comments back to her. I think the big thing here is folks forget about getting to know the person. How do you know if you have any chemistry or not with someone if you don't take the time to know this individual. Could be a big waste of your time meeting up and saying hell no!!!.. People don't have patients on this site either. All they want to do is get fuck and ty very much. For those who are truly seeking friendship, love some relationship start to use your communication skills. Take your time what is your hurry! Go from there.. Everything in life was not created all at once why should any relationship be so quick! hugs V Great post here.! Become a blog watcher sweet_vm
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Interesting post.  Online communication, I think, is far more difficult than offline communication. There are so many things that can go wrong; it's amazing it goes right sometimes. TC 
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Interesting post. Online communication, I think, is far more difficult than offline communication. There are so many things that can go wrong; it's amazing it goes right sometimes. TC When someone asks me that question (although I did give a few ball busting replies on intenda's post) I usually say "when are you free to meet?" The answer they give tells me everything I want to know going forward.
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. I generally just say what I mean and try to always stay polite. I do prefer face to face conversation, since much of a conversation is visual.
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I read her post and made my comments back to her. I think the big thing here is folks forget about getting to know the person. How do you know if you have any chemistry or not with someone if you don't take the time to know this individual. Could be a big waste of your time meeting up and saying hell no!!!.. People don't have patients on this site either. All they want to do is get fuck and ty very much. For those who are truly seeking friendship, love some relationship start to use your communication skills. Take your time what is your hurry! Go from there.. Everything in life was not created all at once why should any relationship be so quick! hugs V Great post here.! I didn't bother to put this in the post, because I assumed it went without saying, a first meet is just that a first meet; it is not an appointment to fuck. If everyone involved hits it off, and they decide to go there, great. But, IMHO is about meeting and seeing if there will be more.  Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I am not saying wanting back and forth communication before a meet, should be dispensed with or is unimportant. I am not saying if a lady or man needs some social interaction before a meet that it should not take place. It's the continuous debate over who should adjust how they go about things, men or women... my answer is BOTH! Both need to be more accommodating to each gender, and the complexities of each. Both men and women need to find ways to quiet the noise, look past minor faux pas, and communicate more effectively, in a manner that is understandable to the other. Supposedly both genders want the reach the same goals, all be it by very different paths. People should try to find a mutually acceptable paths together, not me trying to force you over to my path, or you trying to force me over to yours. Men are definitely on this site to meet women, and women are on this site to meet men, it's not a one sided affair. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Intenda, I understand your specific situation and as I said on your blog, you have done an excellent job at clearing communicating your expectations, processes and outcomes in your profile. If someone has bothered to read your profile the process should come as no surprise... I wish more women were that clear. I do acknowledge that if all someone has in the communication bag, is "what do you want to know", they are just look to tell you what they think you want to hear, and not really engaging you in conversation. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Might we be referring to this particular asshat (ie: me) ? Because most men on this site from the general population behave like asshats, you need to guard against immediately relegating a man to the asshats group for a small faux pas. Once relegated, the man will never be allowed to let his nature unfold through discussion, the conversation will just end abruptly, and a opportunity may have been lost. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Interesting post. Online communication, I think, is far more difficult than offline communication. There are so many things that can go wrong; it's amazing it goes right sometimes. TC Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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THIS is exactly why I like to meet someone face to face before exchanging more than a few emails and pictures. At best, a typed answer tells me nothing. At worst, it's a carefully crafted response designed to trick me into believing someone is something they're not. A question answered in person with all the eye contact, body language and all the other cues available is SO much more telling about a person. When someone asks me that question (although I did give a few ball busting replies on intenda's post) I usually say "when are you free to meet?" The answer they give tells me everything I want to know going forward. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Pasion, great point... our point of view and our approach to making things work are all unique. Some of us make the stop and go decision quickly others slowly. As one who like to run his mouth, if the conversation is like pulling teeth, or you protect everything about youself like its Fort Knox, I won't stick with it for long. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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. I generally just say what I mean and try to always stay polite. I do prefer face to face conversation, since much of a conversation is visual.Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Hi Pandora, everyone likes and comfort levels with different situations is different. Some view the online portion of the communication process as an important part of the seduction, while others view it purely as a screen process. I definitely understand intenda wanting to like a man and be comfortable with him, before she contemplates a meet. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I like to get to know someone before meeting, there are many ways to get to know them, most that are serious about meeting have good profiles, or blogs, for the more private or reserved people I find them willing to converse in some format either on the site or other communicators. where I believe a lot of communcation falls apart is in anticipating the required responses, - the "what do you want to know?" question is a perfect example. what is the answer the person WANTS to hear? the "checklist" you mentioned is the perfect example, we try to FIT the other persons requirements to move the relationship forward. My personal expirence has been that the BEST relationships (sexual and non sexual) come from not having a predefined expectation, but rather looking at each potential relationship as a blank book that we get to write together as we get to know someone. an OPEN mind goes a long ways, with both genders Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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LoveCalypso, it's the other way around... you are not the noise; the members who don't read your profile or blog and then contact you, you direct them back to the profile and they still don't get it are the noise. When you are bombarded with interactions with those types of member (the noise), it's easy to become callous towards decent men when they message you. That's what I was suggesting you need to be conscious of. I don't know if hiding your pictures in a private album will help, I know that some do; I'm one of them, my friends know what my entire face looks like. I just read a women's profile earlier this week, who stated in her profile point blank... she will not post any suggestive pictures, or e-mail them to you if you ask... she will send them to you when and if she is ready to meet, and not before. Everyone has a different approach. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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 Kidding. Just goes to show us how we all interpret things differently. Thanks Kinky.  Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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Debbi you prefer to meet people face to face. You like a good old fashion face-to-face conversation, like way back when, when you had to go on blind dates, or meet people in bars, clubs and what not, and actually learn about each other, instead of reading each other's carefully prepared statements. I know my sarcasm is not lost on you. I too learned the hard way too, that a thorough vetting is required before arranging a face to face. BTW, glad to see you are up and around. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I am no longer on the site to meet any one but when I was I took my time in getting to know a man....a few emails here, then offsite IM....and if there was good conversation and banter, fun and flirting, humour and rapport after a while....maybe a month I would know that I wanted to meet face to face for a chat. ~~Anais Nin~~
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I am no longer on the site to meet any one but when I was I took my time in getting to know a man....a few emails here, then offsite IM....and if there was good conversation and banter, fun and flirting, humour and rapport after a while....maybe a month I would know that I wanted to meet face to face for a chat. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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It's ok Khu, I knew you weren't referring to me as an asshat but women can be as much asshats as they accuse men of being by not making an allowance or two that the guy they are communicating with might be nervous and a bit out of his natural element. Find pleasure in giving pleasure
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I love this post so much I wish I had written it. The only thing I will add to the conversation here is that I understand comfort level. Because I am a woman, I know that I'm pretty much going to call the shots as to if and when the action is going to move into the bedroom. So I understand comfort level, cause I have to comfortable. And while I may not be comfortable enough to invite a man to my home, or not comfortable enough to hit the skins, I don't understand "Not comfortable enough to meet you." Circumstances have sometimes dictated that I email, IM, or text with a man for a considerable time before I actually meet him in person. Those talks can be funny, sweet, sexy, and endearing. But none of that matters if I sit down with him and there is no spark of attraction, no chemistry, no sexual mojo. Any relationship I seek will involve sex. So it doesn't matter how much we have communicated, or how much of a gentleman he is, or how much we have in common if there is no sexual desire. I'm always comfortable enough for a cup of coffee in a public place. Those 30, 60, or 240 minutes are the best investment I can make in determining whether I'm on the right track or need to move on.
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